The difference between Android and “proper” Linux? You said it:
Android is a semi-immutable (heavily modified and basically owned by Google) distro that runs app in sandboxes.
That is not what “tinkerers” want. They want access to the system. I have not tried it but can you even run an android app from the command line? I guess you can somehow but that just brings me to my other point. You kinda have to be an Android dev to tinker with Android, while on “proper” Linux the learning experience is more granular.
edit: indeed running Android apps from CLI is not very tinker-friendly:
Sorry, I couldn’t follow/I don’t think I understood you.
Why wound you want or need to run anything via CLI?
Most Linux users never use anything CLI (similar MacOS & Windows). Why would Linux phone users? And what does that have to do with android app devs?
The difference between Android and “proper” Linux? You said it:
But (what I said is that) all of that you can get in various Linux distros too - what I was saying that the basic difference for devs is Google/Android SDK.
You want to automate something with a script or want to create some workaround for something.
But (what I said is that) all of that you can get in various Linux distros too
Sure, but these distros aren’t the go-to choice of tinkerers. As I said for the normal Ubuntu user LineageOS is completely fine. “Proper” Linux phone’s target audience are Arch, Gentoo, Void,… users.
the basic difference for devs is Google/Android SDK
For devs sure but “tinkerers” aren’t always devs. They can just start as someone who just “pokes” into their system and eventually dives deeper, or stays forever at the “fix a thing here and there” level. In my opinion you don’t get this granular spectrum of skill. You either are an Android developer (be it Android app or Android system developer) or Android user. Maybe that isn’t true but the original topic was “why Linux phones when AOSP forks exist” and I think “tinkerers” might think this way about Android.
I think all of those (Arch, Gentoo, Void) have unofficial or forked immutable versions. But I’m wondering why the immutable distros aren’t for “tinkerers”?
But I get it, and agree, current Linux phones arent for non-“tinkerers”, but isn’t that just how all things start in foss world/early unstable non-foss software projects? Surely that wouldn’t be the long-term goal.
Like Linux RISC-V desktops/laptops, but that is just the beginning.
Maybe that isn’t true but the original topic was “why Linux phones when AOSP forks exist” and I think “tinkerers” might think this way about Android.
Oh, definitely, but that is just the first/current stage.
My added comment is that, besides the tinkerers, AOSP is still in danger of Google (bcs it is by Google) - they are closing/trying to close down there open-sauciness of it (I know, the licences, but megacorp), delaying publishing the sauce code, and in the near future, I’m sure is it, making decisions that would be increasingly hard for AOSP to be used benevolently (they arent at the moment so hard on this bcs driver availability locks down what Android you can install on your phone).
The phone market and society would benefit long-term of Google wouldn’t have a monopoly in so many key areas.
Android is a semi-immutable (heavily modified and basically owned by Google) distro that runs app in sandboxes.
What is the difference?
The difference between Android and “proper” Linux? You said it:
That is not what “tinkerers” want. They want access to the system. I have not tried it but can you even run an android app from the command line? I guess you can somehow but that just brings me to my other point. You kinda have to be an Android dev to tinker with Android, while on “proper” Linux the learning experience is more granular.
edit: indeed running Android apps from CLI is not very tinker-friendly:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6613889/how-to-start-an-android-application-from-the-command-line
Sorry, I couldn’t follow/I don’t think I understood you.
Why wound you want or need to run anything via CLI?
Most Linux users never use anything CLI (similar MacOS & Windows). Why would Linux phone users? And what does that have to do with android app devs?
But (what I said is that) all of that you can get in various Linux distros too - what I was saying that the basic difference for devs is Google/Android SDK.
Indeed but I’m not talking about “most users”.
You want to automate something with a script or want to create some workaround for something.
Sure, but these distros aren’t the go-to choice of tinkerers. As I said for the normal Ubuntu user LineageOS is completely fine. “Proper” Linux phone’s target audience are Arch, Gentoo, Void,… users.
For devs sure but “tinkerers” aren’t always devs. They can just start as someone who just “pokes” into their system and eventually dives deeper, or stays forever at the “fix a thing here and there” level. In my opinion you don’t get this granular spectrum of skill. You either are an Android developer (be it Android app or Android system developer) or Android user. Maybe that isn’t true but the original topic was “why Linux phones when AOSP forks exist” and I think “tinkerers” might think this way about Android.
I think all of those (Arch, Gentoo, Void) have unofficial or forked immutable versions. But I’m wondering why the immutable distros aren’t for “tinkerers”?
But I get it, and agree, current Linux phones arent for non-“tinkerers”, but isn’t that just how all things start in foss world/early unstable non-foss software projects? Surely that wouldn’t be the long-term goal.
Like Linux RISC-V desktops/laptops, but that is just the beginning.
Oh, definitely, but that is just the first/current stage.
My added comment is that, besides the tinkerers, AOSP is still in danger of Google (bcs it is by Google) - they are closing/trying to close down there open-sauciness of it (I know, the licences, but megacorp), delaying publishing the sauce code, and in the near future, I’m sure is it, making decisions that would be increasingly hard for AOSP to be used benevolently (they arent at the moment so hard on this bcs driver availability locks down what Android you can install on your phone).
The phone market and society would benefit long-term of Google wouldn’t have a monopoly in so many key areas.